3 Mantras for the Modern Chief Executive

00:00 – Navigating leadership in complexity

Brian Telis: Hello and welcome to Leadcast, our leadership series under the Soundbox Initiative. My name is Brian Telis, and I am your host. In each episode, we sit down with a leader from Aditya Birla Group for a conversation about the group, its businesses, and also to find out what the future holds for us as an organisation.             
In today's episode, we will be speaking with Rohit Pathak, an IIM alumnus who has been with the group since 2011. Rohit joined Aditya Birla Group as Principal EA to the Chairman, Mr. Kumar Mangalam Birla. He is the recipient of the Chairman's Award for Exceptional Contribution in 2015. Currently, Rohit is the CEO of Birla Copper, the copper business of Hindalco Industries Limited, a flagship company of Aditya Birla Group. He has had a truly inspiring journey.             
Thank you so much, Rohit, for joining us today on this chat. And I'm sure a whole lot of people, starting with me, are going to be seriously well-educated on who the gentleman is and the incredible difference that you continue to make to our lives.

Brian Telis: Now, Rohit, as a leader who has driven transformation at Birla Copper and indeed beyond, you've often talked about the importance of evolving the CEO role. Now, in your view, Rohit, what does it take to lead in today's—should I say—complex, ever-changing business environment? And importantly, how has your leadership philosophy evolved over the years?             
Rohit Pathak: Always a pleasure to be with you, Brian, and I look forward to sharing some of my thoughts. So, look, you know, I have had a very non-traditional journey so far into this role. I was an adviser for the first 15 years of my working life with McKinsey and then with Mr. Birla in the Chairman's Office. And then suddenly, I moved into an operating P&L role heading the insulator business for the group.

02:30 – Shop floor learning and inside-out leadership

And it was a big transition. I think the only two skills that I took into the role—which I think made me or which made Mr. Birla and the leadership feel okay about giving that role to me—were, one, good strategic thinking, which at least McKinsey had drilled enough into our DNA, and second, my people skills. I had no clue about the industry; I had no clue about the manufacturing process—it was all very new to me. So, I think it was a very interesting phase of my journey and a pivotal point in how I evolved as a leader.             
I consciously taken on that role because I thought it's something that would help me learn at probably a little lower stake for the group because it was a small business. So, if I did go wrong, it's not a big hit on the group, and I would sort of evolve as a leader.             
I think three things in this journey I have learned. In my first phase at Insulators, a lot of my learning was inside-out because I wanted to learn how manufacturing happens, how to do labor negotiations for the LTS, business development—the whole thing, right? So, I think it was a lot of inside-out type of learning where I spent time on the shop floor, on the front line, to understand the business and see how things happen.

04:50 – Inspire over instruct: CEO mindset

Slowly, as I've moved into this current role of heading the copper business, which is much larger and of a bigger scale, I have learned to now evolve from an inside-out to an outside-in approach. Because this business is so large, there is no way I can learn everything inside-out. So, one of the key journeys for me has been: Can I add value to the decision-making and how the business performs by having an outside-in view of the business? By asking the right questions, by knowing where to go deep in, and at the same time not micromanaging too many things because that's just not feasible.             
So, I think that is one—going from inside-out to outside-in. The second one is moving from a guiding type of role, which I started doing in my previous stint, to a lot more coaching style, which I'm trying to do now. Where, look, I hardly take any decisions today. A large part of my role is to help ensure that my team is able to make the right decisions. So, I think that consciously I have started doing, and hence, it's something that has helped me a lot but I think is also helping the team grow and handle the wide array. So, I'm quite okay saying, "I don't want to be in every discussion or decision—you guys take it. This is how I would think if I were you." Right? And that's sort of the style which I've moved towards in the last few years.             
The third one, which I think is still a journey—it'll always remain a journey—is my last CEO role was more of a leading-leader role, where I was trying to lead the business. In this role, I am trying to change my style to inspiring people versus leading. So, I think, to me, the journey is doing to leading to inspiring. And I think I'm trying to make the switch from leading to inspiring in this role.

07:23 – Collaboration during business challenges

Brian Telis: That's a really interesting definition, really, of your journey thus far. And I'm going to dwell on a couple of those points later. But for now, I can't help but remind you of an article where you advocated rethinking—I found it very intriguing—the "E" in the CEO. You know, qualities like, for instance, engaging, enabling, which you just spoke about, and empathizing, which is so critical. I mean, can you share specific instances where embodying these three traits have significantly impacted your leadership approach?             
Rohit Pathak: No, sure. You know, I think this is something which I believe very strongly in because I feel what you call a role defines a lot of how you operate in that role. And the Chief Executive Officer role, by definition, implies that you are taking all the decisions—you are an executive who's doing or executing things. And I feel that the role needs to be different, especially in today's time. And hence, I thought these three E's of engaging, enabling, and empowering are sort of the key ways to think of this role.

09:38 – Empathy + empowerment = impact

To me, the first test or situation where I put this to test was when I moved into the Insulators role. It's a very old, manual manufacturing type of business, where we had two plants, both having 1,500 to 2,000 employees—a large part of them permanent, some part contract. And, you know, when I took on the role, the long-term settlements of both the units were coming in about a year away from when I took over. And generally, in that industry, LTS—and one was in Kolkata, so you can imagine how things were. There were six unions there, and the business was not going through a great time. So, it was a tough phase for the business.             
And, you know, I was wondering how to go about this and what the right approach was. And I also wanted to try out different ways of leadership because that was my first role. And, you know, I said, "Look, leave the LTS aside—it'll come about a year down the line." But I spent a lot of time on the shop floor, working with and looking at what the workers are doing, engaging and interacting with them directly. And I just found the response fantastic. We made small improvements—things like, "Okay, can we improve the working conditions in a systematic way?" We ensured that, look, at work, all of us should be treated equally. So, when it comes to food, water, all of us get the same thing, right? We have the same kitchen; we have the same place. As a leadership and management team, we said, "Okay, we will go to this contractor canteen, which is typically the most ignored, and start eating food there." Right? To ensure that the food quality improves. And I think, you know, just empathizing with the tough work that they do.

11:53 – Guiding principles for front-line decision-making

And to my surprise, when we went in for the long-term settlement, it was hardly a negotiation. It was more an engaging conversation we had, saying, "Look, this is the business situation—how do we come out of this together?" And we took some tough calls. It was probably, from a worker perspective, not a great LTS to sign on, but it went through smoothly. For the first time in the history of Rishra, we had a peaceful settlement with no protest, with everyone acknowledging that, "Look, this is a tough one, but it's important," and we went ahead. And that showed me that, look, if you empathize with the people, listen to them, have a direct channel open to them, they are willing to listen and do what they think is right for the business. And I think that, to me, was a big eye-opener and strengthened my faith in a different way of leadership.             
The second one I would say is, if I look at my role in Copper now, I have tried this enabling and empowering type of style, and I think it's working quite well. The business has probably done the best it has ever done in its history. We are growing, and the team is feeling overall excited. And like my team says, "The pressure of the trust I put in them is higher than the pressure of trying to be a bossy leader that I could have put." So, I think, to me, it's a positive pressure that this style creates, and I'm enjoying it.

13:59 – Decision clarity vs. operational clutter

Brian Telis: That's wonderful. Just listening to you, Rohit, I feel that you've empowered everyone in the team. And very importantly, by doing what you've just spoken about, you've given them a sense of ownership of the road ahead, and that's incredible. Speaking of which, I mean, growing up in the family you have—a military (defence) family, okay, with both your father and grandfather serving as generals nonetheless—how have the military principles kind of influenced your leadership style in the corporate world? Two different, how should I say, areas, so to speak, of humankind, if I might. So, you know, how have you really used the principles that your lineage has empowered you with in your current role?             
Rohit Pathak: By the way, I'm not just born and grew up in a military family, but I also married into a defence family. My wife comes from four generations of defence, which is itself a big legacy. I think the first principle which I observed, which I think is something I've taken very strongly in, is just being with the frontline, right? They are the ones who are actually doing the work. And the bond that I saw in my father or my grandfather with the frontline soldier was fantastic, right? You know, they would reach out; if they were visiting a town where Dad was posted, they would come and say—even if they were retired—that relationship that they built is something which is just fantastic, right? And I think that's something which I felt is, look, everyone is doing important work. Just because of the way we have structured our hierarchy doesn't mean that they are any different or less important. And I think that connect and respect for the frontline is something that I picked up from that.

16:04 – Stepping back to step up

Second is, one of the things which I realized—and that links up to the previous question you asked of enabling and empowering—is, look, finally, the frontline has to take decisions. So, you have to be able to create an environment where they are able to take the decision based on some basic values and guiding principles that you lay out, right? If you are in an encounter or if you're in a war, you cannot always wait for orders from the head office. You may not even have those links up and running in that zone. So, you're there, and you have to take a call. So, how you help people understand your way of thinking, the guiding principles for whatever journey the business is on, is very important. And I think how do you do that over in the peacetime, let's say, right, is what is important. So, I think when things are going good, instead of being complacent, how do you use that time to create a common sense of purpose and common sense of value for your teams is, I think, the second part.             
The third one is an interesting conversation which I had with one of Dad's friends. You know, he was a general at that time, a core commander, and we had gone to him for a short two or three days’ break. And, you know, I was sitting for lunch at 1, and Uncle came back in at 1. And I was surprised to see him because normally in the Army, by that time, officers had all started working a bit late, and they would come in at 2 or 2:30. So, I asked him, "Uncle, what's—not much work?" So, he gave a very interesting answer. He said, "Look, Rohit, I am the core commander. My job is to take decisions. So, I am the last to go to office, and the first to come back because only after that will others move. So, I need to create that space for the others to work only as much as they need to and not because I'm sitting there in the office."

18:12 – Expansive leadership and cultural shift

Second, he said, "Look, my job is to take decisions. So, the most important role for me is to keep my mind clutter-free to be able to take the decision when I have to take a decision because those decisions are not the easy ones to take. And if I have too much going on in my mind, I will not be able to take an effective decision. So, I have my chief of staff who does the administrative work for me, and I keep my mind free for taking the big decisions." And I think, to me, that notion of saying, "Can you keep your mind clutter-free?" is something which has stuck with me all these years. This was, I think, 23 years ago when I had this conversation, but it still is very vivid in my imagination and something that has subtly influenced how I work.

Brian Telis: That's really interesting you say that because as the Chief Executive Officer, you are obviously responsible for the entire organization and how it performs. And yet, you so pertinently say, Rohit, that you've got to keep your mind clutter-free. So, how do you draw the balance between knowing enough, being knowledgeable enough, you know, to lead from the front, so to speak, and yet keep your mind clutter-free? Now, you've emphasized the point thus far—the importance of making oneself redundant, in a manner of speaking, to foster team growth. I mean, can you elaborate on this philosophy? And, of course, what always helps is if you could share an example or two on how you've implemented it in your leadership roles.             
Rohit Pathak: So, you know, I remember when I joined the Insulator business, and in one of the first town halls, when I was addressing the team, I made this statement. I said, "Look, you know, if you really want to grow, try and make yourself redundant in your role." And, you know, I heard a lot of whispers later on that people thought I was trying to hint at people who have been around for a long time to, you know, to fire them or ask them to go, which is not the intent. You know, I think, to me, the thing is, if you—the only way to grow is if you are able to raise your level of performance to the next level. And you're not going to do that by trying to do the job one level below.             
And I see a lot of people—managers—who, as they grow, they try and do the job of their subordinates, right? And then, hence, micromanaging because, you know, it better, right? So, let's say if I'm a strong procurement guy, my negotiation skills may be better than my team. And hence, every time a negotiation comes to me, I can add that extra value to the negotiation. But am I doing the right thing for the organization by doing that? Because then the next in line will never become better than me. So, my role, when I become, let's say, the functional head, is to step back and let my team take those decisions. And even if some of them are not perfect as I would see it, to encourage them to keep improving, right, versus doing it for them.             
And hence, you know, I have sort of tried to follow this 100-80-60 rule, which is: In the first year in a role, whenever you take on, give 100% to that role. In the second year, do 80% in that role. And in the third year, do 60% in the role. And use the balance time to do things which your boss is doing. So, you know, instead of trying to do your subordinate's work, can you start doing your boss's work? So, you know, let's say in my current role, I start looking and spend a lot of time thinking, "What would—if I was in Satish's (Satish Pai) shoes—how would I think from Hindalco's perspective of what Copper needs to do?" Right? And I spend a lot of time thinking and looking at things from that perspective. And hence, that automatically makes me get a lot more wider perspective and helps me grow, and hence creates room for the team to also grow.             
So, you know, in a nutshell, look, this is an expansive way of leadership where you're trying to create opportunities to grow, right? Like the universe—you know, you're expanding. And instead of trying to compress, you are trying to create that different DNA in the organization.

Brian Telis: This whole system kind of negates this whole wanting-to-dominate kind of thing. And like you said, you create a universe that grows happily and grows as a team.             
Rohit Pathak: And think of it from another perspective, Brian. You know, a lot of people try and tell you why they are indispensable in the role they're doing because they want to hold on to that role. But now, if I am the manager of that person, and if you have created this impression that you are indispensable, why would I ever give you growth? I would always want to keep you there because you have given me the impression that without you, the thing will collapse. So, yeah, I may do a few things to give you an increment or an out-of-turn promotion, but I would want you to be there because without you, I'm not sure whether things will work, right? So, you're actually locking yourself in if you don't make yourself redundant in a role.

Watch Full Video on Youtube: Leadcast | The CEO Reimagined | Rohit Pathak | Part 1